Phenix Rising (Roundtable Discussion) 

March 28, 2004

Earlier this month, the Ledger-Enquirer played host to a discussion on the role and mission of Phenix City's Downtown Redevelopment Authority. We invited the five members of the authority to voice their views. The 45-minute discussion was moderated by associate editor Dusty Nix and East Alabama team leader Jerry F. Rutledge. Here are portions of it, edited for length and clarity.

Jerry F. Rutledge: To start, I think a very good question you can each answer is exactly what do you see as the role of this board in developing Phenix City?

Sammy Howard: I'm going to let Jay start that. He's probably more knowledgeable than any of us. We're following his lead to a certain extent. J.W. Brannen: Jerry, around 1985, the state of Alabama passed a law that allowed the cities to create a downtown redevelopment authority, which is this authority. I was one of the petitioners back then to get it started in Phenix City. The support didn't seem to be there at that time. But I thought back then it was something that we should have started using, and maybe things would look different downtown, maybe, but it didn't happen.

And the first board that was appointed engaged in completing the map according to the law, the requirements of the law, and had the board function completely. And I was not on the board. I was an incorporator of the board.

We found a city using this redevelopment authority to some extent back then, and John Franklin was the city manager. We visited Dothan, and the Dothan board met with us and helped our board get started to the point they could create the map and meet the requirements of the law and get all of that properly recorded, but there was just no encouragement at that time from city council. And it just sort of dwindled away.

And so we didn't hear about it for several years. Very little was going on concerning downtown and downtown corporate redevelopment. And then these two comprehensive plans were started. And I think maybe Sammy Howard started those.

This last Boulevard group mentioned the necessity to create a downtown redevelopment authority I believe is the way it came about, and I heard that and I said "Wow, we already have one." And what most people remembered was that in a prior administration the board was reappointed, and Mr. Gaylor wanted the board to abandon, you know, disband, but they failed to do that. Who knows why?

But we --- I've always felt that it was a real tool for the community. So here we are.

Howard: Jerry, I think this particular group with the finance and investment side of it, has got to figure out --- all of the groups have to figure out how do we all work together. We've got the East Alabama Riverfront Development, which is the volunteer group which has hired the consulting group Boulevard.

Then we have the downtown redevelopment authority, which is this group. Then we've got also a joint committee with Columbus. I've gone to four different meetings this week with four different committees. And then we've also got the Riverview group that's working with whitewater rafting. And then you begin to pull in the city council, who are the major players in this without a doubt. The planning commission.

So there's a lot of pieces to this puzzle, and I can honestly say this is the best I've ever seen Phenix City working with.

Dusty Nix: I'd like to hear from some of the other members of this group --- what y'all bring to this. So what Ms. Garner and Mr. Gibson and Mr. Holmes bring to the process as well. What do y'all see as your place in this puzzle?

Eddie Gibson: Mine is pretty simple. I'm just trying to find out what my position is, what I'm suppose to be doing. I've just recently been appointed, and this is just my second meeting. So I'm so new to it.

Nix: Still learning, right?

Gibson: I'm still learning, yes. So I'm trying to find my way out and where I'm suppose to be right now.

Joan Garner: That's basically how I feel, but I think being a business owner in the downtown area maybe that, you know, I might have a little bit of input on what we see we need done in the downtown area. And of course I want to see it grow. I think we've got potential in Phenix City to do great things if we all work together to do it.

Scott Holmes: I think my role, something I bring, is some younger ideas.

And also the role that we played in Columbus --- revitalizing the downtown that our firm has played, learning some of those lessons, things to do, private partnerships with public partnerships. I think that's important and something that my experience can bring to this board.

Nix: What are some of the challenges that you face in downtown revitalization? Is it inertia? Is it status quo? Is it money? What do y'all see as the things that you've really got to confront to make these good things happen?

Howard: There's no doubt the biggest obstacle right now are Riverview Apartments --- it seems like we're dwelling on that and that's certainly not the only opportunity and the only problem we have. But that's the No. 1 thing we've got to overcome first. How do we deal with that and make sure everyone is happy? I think as far as the private developers, once whitewater comes in, and once the apartments begin to come down, I think the private sector dollars are going to be there, don't you?

Brannen: I do.

Howard: I do. I mean I've just had too many that have said, "Hey, we're ready." I mean big-time developers that have the resources. A lot of it though is going to be planning --- making sure that we don't let it get out of control.

Brannen: It appears to me that the apartments are the number one opportunity. If it can come together such as what we saw in Atlanta, the rest of the area may be completed at the same time or before it, because once that idea comes to some sort of fruition, the investors are going to be watching and they will be coming.

And I've said all along I can envision a shopping mall down on Broad Street backed up to the riverwalk with a hotel on one end and maybe a government center on the other end up above it. I think that that's the private Cadillac they keep on talking about, getting the county government.

Our courthouse is small. It's really almost beyond use. The county needs to be looking at some better quarters with some more room, and I would think this is a good time to incorporate that into a plan.

I read about several years ago, along about when this was brought back up in '85, a county in North Carolina built a shopping mall and the court complex and the courthouses were above the shopping center. They did triple A leases on all of the space that paid for the whole building, the courthouse and all over the length of the bonds. And the people downstairs got their deed for a dollar. That's the kind of idea I would like to see something start coming together on.

Nix: As a business owner what do you see --- what kind of possibilities and opportunities do you see this bringing for you and for the other people who are already invested in the area?

Garner: I think that we lose a lot of traffic that we should be able to keep over in our city. But I really think that we lose a lot of traffic because the people are coming over here to restaurants, to shops on Broadway. I mean I come. There are just --- they're neat little shops. People can walk the sidewalks and enjoy an afternoon out.

And I would love to see that happen down around the plaza, up around 16th Street, you know, what we always consider downtown Phenix City. Bring in some businesses, some restaurants, the little shops, specialty shops and things just to build back up that area because it used to be a nice area.

And I'm with them, I think the apartments have a negative attitude that people don't want to come around that area with those apartments there to build anything. And I would love to see the riverwalk growing up our side and to have little restaurants and little things so that you can have somewhere to go when you're walking on the riverwalk.

Rutledge: Well, you were talking in terms of visions. Scott, do you have a particular vision for what you think downtown should look like?

Holmes: Well, I think it should speak about Phenix City and where we have come from, just a small southern town, which we still are, and it should have the urban fabric that could make you want to be downtown and feel like it is a downtown and not just a suburb, all spread out. It should have all the property up to the edge of the property lines where there is a sidewalk where we'll have the same feel of a downtown that we have in Columbus.

And I think we've got some --- we need to adopt a comprehensive plan where everybody is following the same rules, because if one building is out of place and out of scale or out of context, then it can throw off the whole fabric that we're trying to create.

Nix: Mr. Gibson, you were talking about some other examples of this kind of development you've seen?

Gibson: Yes, sir. I was stationed at the Savannah area three different tours in the military, and along the riverfront there in Savannah it is very --- I mean it is booming. The business is booming, and a lot of the events in the city associated with that area.

St. Patrick's Day, one of the largest in the country every year, and then they have other events strictly associated with the downtown riverfront area. And the old historical district is part of it, but that riverfront is really a booming area down there, and it's being revitalized. A lot of hotels and businesses are located in that area.

Again I was stating that we only have one river, so we have to take advantage along that riverfront, and I think one of the keys is to educate the people who are down in that area now that the city is going to develop along that river, and you need to take advantage of the properties or the different facilities down near the riverfront.

Nix: When you talk about Savannah and you talk about Columbus, too, one of the things that we have seen is that development and preservation go hand in hand. One of the things that came up in Phenix City a couple of years ago was preservation of that downtown business district. I think the fellow who owned the Italian restaurant that's now Booth's was leading that charge.

Have y'all incorporated some of that, the thought of restoring that downtown business district as part of your plan?

Howard: I don't think there's been a lot of discussion. Has it been with y'all? (talking to Brannen) I haven't. I don't think we've reached that point yet.

Brannen: We missed that. The two comprehensive plans have been about it. We adopted the --- what was that report, the comprehensive plan?

Holmes: KPS Group.

Brannen: KPS plan back about a year ago.

Holmes: 2002.

Brannen: And we're still in the process of understanding what's in there. I think we need to redouble our efforts, all of us. We are encouraging the planning commission to be involved.

As a matter of fact we have a great planning commission now. They all seem to be on board and working, and we want to encourage them to keep doing that. And with our help and our encouragement, I think it is going to continue.

As soon as we make one good lick --- and I'm talking about we land a major hotel --- and the apartments get started, I believe it will be all downhill from there.

Nix: I didn't mean to throw a red herring into the water. It seems like that's --- there's so much potential and historic interest in that area, especially for those of us who grew up around here.

Garner: Well, that's kind of my feeling. I would like to see that area developed into what it could be or what it used to be, because like you said, that's the way it was all my life growing up, and it was just nice.

Howard: I think that's one of the good things that we'll be able to get to is that this is going to be private-sector growth.

The council, city council, is certainly going to be the ones that are going to map it out and deal with it as it goes, but I don't think we're talking about having to come in and the government spending a lot of money. I think probably we're looking at some infrastructure, some water, sewage, but it's basically going to be a private-sector growth, which is what you want. In fact it makes it a lot easier.

Brannen: We just need to keep pushing our leadership to keep our momentum going and keep it going and just keep pushing it and being a leader.

Howard: And what J.W. just said --- and I'm talking too much, and I won't say anything else after this --- but we have got the best group working we've ever had, and that's a compliment I think to our city council. Our planning commission is by far to me the best one we've ever had.

Our economic development director (Judson Edwards), he is --- I think he's going to be fantastic.

Nix: Let me ask one more thing. When Scott was talking about development in architectural context, when you start talking about codes and context and having a vision and a look for an area or a community, is resistance to that going to be one of the growing pains you encounter? "Don't tell me how my building is suppose to look," you know, "It's my property," and so forth?

Holmes: Sure. That's always a problem we have. And we've got the facade board in Columbus, you know, the downtown area, and I think Phenix City needs to adopt something like that that's not already in place.

But the comprehensive plan sets guidelines that can be used by the planning commission, and it's very thorough and it's proven, I mean proven design elements and design philosophies of how you create a great street that someone is going to enjoy walking down.

It spells out you don't use the metal-sided buildings, you use permanent structured buildings, you use brick and the pre-casts and so it's a permanent setting and it's not just these things popping up fast, we have to get them fast, we'll use these certain materials.

The one thing we don't have is a grand downtown now that Columbus was blessed with. It was redeveloped. In some of these areas we have just parking lots and buildings set back 25 feet, 30 feet from the front of the street. Well, that's not how you create a downtown and this document sets out how to do that.

Howard: We really don't have a downtown.

Holmes: No, we don't.

Howard: This is really not a redevelopment. It's a development.

Nix: How does that little strip mall with the Piggly Wiggly and the ---

Holmes: Well, according to this it would, you know, it has to be on the street front, sidewalk front, and the parking lot should always be in the rear according to this plan and the corners there, you know, when you enter up to 13th Street they emphasize three story corners, heavy corners.

Brannen: It don't fit. It does not fit.

Nix: It does not.

Holmes: And then that's one of the --- in this plan certainly it needs to go. The materiality is wrong. The siding is wrong. I mean there's, unfortunately, there's several buildings downtown that fit this description, but if we're going to, you know, if this board can do it, I just think it's important that we're on the right page and we do it right.

Rutledge: Are you going to build a vehicle in which you would take the message, the idea, to the people?

Howard: I think once we get to a certain point --- and we are not there yet --- then we will begin to have community meetings, but I don't think we're quite ready for that yet. There would be a lot of confusion, a lot of misunderstanding. But at some point.

Rutledge: Anybody else?

Garner: I'm still new. I mean this is all new to me, so I'm kind of like Mr. Eddie. I'm just kind of sitting back and listening --- because they know more about it, but, you know, I want to do my part and do what I can. But I don't want to put my foot in my mouth, either, by saying something that I don't know anything about.

Brannen: Well, I've already handed this to a potential investor, and I said, please take this back to your attorneys and your consultants and your tax advisers and all the people that you deal with on your project and find where we can be of help to you.

And I believe that we can, and you know they'll come back to us. When they find out about this, they'll be knocking on the door. We know this. We got to make that first lick, but I think our organization --- this is our second time meeting together, and I think we are going to keep a fast pace on this thing and, hopefully, until we do land one and it will be downhill from there once we land one.

We want the people out there to know, especially know, that all of our efforts --- the city, the planning commission, the downtown redevelopment, the downtown riverfront development group --- all of us are very mindful of property values and we feel like that we'll never do anything that won't continue to enhance their property values and our property values in our city.

Rutledge: Property values. Is that a concern that you've heard voiced?

Brannen: Well, no, not really. I hear them voiced a little sometimes in my regular work. I work for the tax office. I appraise ad valorem taxes. But, you know, I always enjoy reporting back to the taxpayers that when we do a county reappraisal I can report that our values are still continuing to grow.

And that is not necessarily the case everywhere, and it would be a sad day if I came back and reported that I'm sorry but they've dropped down.

Holmes: And that's --- and what we'll be doing we'll be keeping our tax dollars in Phenix City, which isn't happening at the current time.

Rutledge: I've heard mention of hotels over and over again. Do you think that a hotel is important to the downtown development?

Howard: I think so.

Holmes: I think all professionals that have looked think it's certainly a key component.

Rutledge: Why is that?

Howard: I think that just sets an example there --- if a company is spending all that money to build a hotel and from that you're going to have your restaurants and your other things.

Brannen: It's a major revenue source.

Howard: I think that could be as big as anything other than Riverview apartments going down. I think a hotel there would ---

Holmes: There's certainly a need for the bi-city area right now, too, and that's the main thing that is needed right now.

Brannen: And I can see just right away if something starts breaking just right away north all the way up the river, north of the railroad, north of the apartments --- the Riverview apartments --- you know, you can take a couple million dollars in there and buy up forty or fifty of those houses between Fourth Avenue and the river and you can see a high-rise condominium going up overlooking the river that would be very marketable and right behind that would be some high-end apartments and some more condos.

We have a whole riverfront up there that's ready to go, and they're right now inhabited by $30, $40, $45,000 homes, and it's sitting on prime, prime property.

Howard: Well, this is a case probably where we haven't done a lot and it's paying off. We have plenty of land to develop. Like you're talking about with Columbus, they're just about locked in. They don't have a lot left. We do. And by doing --- not doing a whole lot, we have . . .

Rutledge: Potential?

Holmes: Stand on the balcony of the Trade Center, a project we (architects) just finished, and just look on the Phenix City side, and you just see nothing but opportunity because that's what it is and that's what we're here for.

Brannen: If developers broke ground on condominiums overlooking the river on the north end, I believe they probably would all be sold before they are completed.

Howard: I know my wife and I have been hoping for that as we get ready to retire. But by the time they get it I'll be on assisted living probably.

Brannen: But that's an exciting idea, and once one happens . . .

Holmes: That's one of the beauties of people living downtown or the hotel you've got --- you've injected people to walk up and down the streets and it's not just people driving and parking or whatever, going to and from work and whatnot.

Rutledge: And I guess this question probably should have been toward the beginning rather than closer to the end. What do you feel that the confluence of the things that have come together to make this happen right now?

Howard: I think first of all we've got a really good city council. We've got a good planning commission. We have whitewater rafting. We have all this going on in Columbus. We see the opportunity for Riverview. So I think it's a lot of things that just all of a sudden have come together.

And it just --- it looks like it happened almost overnight. But it hasn't. It's been going on for years. And I think a lot of good things have happened to make it reach this point. We've never been at this point before.

Holmes: I think it shows a vision of the city, I mean the elected officials to realize, all right, something's about to happen.

I think they realize it's going to happen, and we better have some order to it.

Howard: The downsizing concern is everything is so ready. If we miss this opportunity and we don't do it now, it may never come back. Not like it will now. We'll never have this kind of opportunity again. If we drag our feet or we can't figure things out, we can't work together, then it's not going to happen like it should.

Brannen: We have to earn and show dependability for the investors and their developers. If we do that, the rest of it will take care of itself, and I think we're on the way to doing that. I think this group is committed. Think y'all are seeing a diversity of people here and nobody with a personal agenda. Nobody.

Rutledge: Do you have any final thoughts?

Gibson: Well, I'm just excited to be here and be a part of this group and learn what's going on in Phenix City and participate wherever I can. It seems to be a very exciting time for the city and this whole area.

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Roundtable Participants:

Sammy Howard, CEO of CB&T Bank of Russell County and chairman of the East Alabama Riverfront Development Scott Holmes, architect with Hecht Burdeshaw Johnson Kidd and Clark Inc. Architects

Eddie Gibson, South Girard Junior High School seventh-grade teacher

Joan Garner, owner of Fay's Flowers on Broad Street in Phenix City

J. W. Brannen, city councilman, county tax appraiser and chairman of the Downtown Redevelopment Authority

A Ledger-Enquirer roundtable